Realities Created, Maintained and Destroyed, WHILE-U-WAIT!

Monday, November 21, 2005

More well reasoned political dialog

Which just goes to show that people with differing views can communicate.


Hi Don,

Too much to cover as comments are limited, as can be witnessed by the cut off on the last comments.

Let me suggest then, if you would like to discuss these things further that you can either email me your reply, which I will post in its entirety, or you can put your reply up on your blog and we can link to each other and let our readership know that there are new comments.

I think there comes a time when you have to put down the dream and pick up the club of reality and realize that there really are certain things that we cannot change.

That sounds good I guess, but if it were true we would all still be singing "God Save the Queen".

The history of our country IS the history of a people who did not accept the status quo. If we had allowed ourselves to believe that we could not change things we would not have seen the successes of Universal Suffrage, collective bargaining and unionization for workers rights, the free speech movement, the civil rights movement, the abolition of slavery and suchlike. That's what Americans do, the imposable.

The Republicans have swung hard towards fascism. It's not the way they treat the media as some claim because the media was chained down and controlled even more by FDR, who was a left-leaning Democrat. The swing to fascism has more to do with how working people are treated, how their retirements are being robbed so some fat bastard can have a small fleet of fine vehicles instead of a couple SUVs, a Beamer and a Mercedes. So they can have three houses instead of merely two. These things are purchased with the very promise of employees at General Motors (now), possibly Delta Airlines and what was it? United? I believe they were the ones that started the ball rolling on the retirement heist.

What you wrote about the oil companies in another entry is also true. If I hear Oxycontinboy telling me one more time that this is the way the market works and nothing is wrong, I'm going to gag. Now they are going to make people choose between warmth and food this winter. Why? Oh, I see, the pipelines are still damaged from hurricanes, that's why the propane, heating oil and natural gas prices are expected to be 50% higher this year! Silly me. The gasoline prices went down because the market is now normal, but apparently there are phantom hurricanes that have done invisible damage.

Well you won't get any arguments from me here, we are in pretty close agreement on these subjects.

I can particularly relate to the choice of heat or food. I think a lot of people are going to be running up against that one and not everyone is lucky enough to have timber to harvest.

You are correct that there is a Puritanical streak in the United States, but you see, that is constantly battling with the Hedonistic among us. I am neither and find both of them repulsive in the extreme, but that's just me. I think you can take a look at the STD rates, abortion and the divorce rate and come away with a very sad picture of the way people run their lives. Alcoholism and drug abuse, etc.

I don't see it in quite the same terms, but I understand your point. Rather than hedonistic I see it as self absorbed ans selfish, a slight but significant difference.

Getting back to my earlier comment about a pipedream, I believe, 100%, that it is a pipedream that we will ever sever ties with or even change Saudi Arabia. You believe that if enough people scream for change, there will be change. I don't think that's realistic. Hopelessly optimistic. I know, I know, "You will never change it if you don't try!" But in trying, a lot of time is wasted because the threat assessment was wrong to begin with, do you know what I mean? You can pay so much attention to something that you have little chance of changing - that other things you could have done...don't get done.

You may end being correct, but as I said earlier the American character is to attempt the imposable (and sometimes succeed).

Also, I think that you are wrong about our chances of making needed change in our government. As used to be taught, despair is the only unforgivable sin. The attitude that we cannot make a difference is one that has been carefully fostered by the corporations to keep us in a hopeless state. I refuse to buy into their game myself.

I don't know where the homophobic commentary came from, I think the gay community is its own worst enemy, but that's just me. They, too, could have gotten farther with honey instead of vinegar, but they chose in-your-face-vinegar. I think "homophobia, racism, bigot, racist," are totally overused words in this country and they are used by one group to demonize another group of people and shut them up, i.e., if you don't agree with everything the gay community says or wants, your're "homophobic." That's pure nonsense! Same thing with race in this country, you're a "racist" and a "bigot" and you "hate" if you don't agree with everything whatever minority has to say. It doesn't have to be that way, but it is.

I was using the far religious right's attitude on gays as an illustration of what they are capable of and are willing to do. I don't know how many times I have herd the old "stoning them to death in the public square is what God wants" line from them.

Lots of things to talk about, so little space. As I type this, I don't even know if it will let me post twice in a row.

Agreed, and I think that this is productive, so let's see if we can find a way to do this that will give you more of a voice.



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